Velocity Limit Changes

[Eclipzed]

Being a team leader. It is my job to look after the safety/care of my team. If I beleive that there is some new rule that might put them in danger I will want to "discuss" it with the moderators. I believe they are doing a very good job of answering our questions, and getting some things ironed out.

Also Ninja2dan made some good points, along with some others.

Back on topic: Alright so the SAW has to carry a backup weapon. That actually does me in. I just didnt want to see anyone getting plastered from a close range with an M60 agian. Thank you for your answers.

[Rogue Reaper]

If you can afford a Saw you can afford the loadout and pistol.

[Eclipzed]

If you can afford a Saw you can afford the loadout and pistol.

Amen to that... Damn rich people... J/k

So now our snipers will finally be able to hit the a$$ of the enemy CO instead of thier arm? Wait... Did I say a$$? I ment "Helmet"

[Matt]

We've been discussing this for a little over two weeks

Actually, it's been discussed for more than a year.

[Zahrdoz]

To tell the truth, most people are going to play regardless of the FPS. It does not matter if you agree with it or not, I may not, but thats not going to stop me from playing.

[Matt]

Guys, my failure to include the safety class requirement on the SAW in the first post was an oversight. It's been updated.

But anyway, yes, to exceed 400 you gotta show that you can use it safely. Same goes for sniper rifles, hell, you can have one under 400 fps if you want... But to upgrade beyond that point you need to get your learn on.

Not everyone is going to be happy that they can't all instantly be elite snipers just because they went out and bought a bolt and a spring, but this is the way it is. If you're going to have a replica for a special role, you're going to learn about that role and how to play it safely. We had strict limits on the amount of snipers at Grid18, and still had 188 players. OP Lion Claws has 300+ players, but only ONE sniper/spotter team per platoon.

[msawiel]

When do these rules go into effect?

[Seagreen]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Troy lined out the specific reason for raising the ceiling for the SAWs.

Heads Down: Use Tactics to take them out.

450 with a SAW is going to be a money pit, the average user will be running +20-30fps over the standard 400FPS rules.

The safety course for the bolt limits the numbers and is just a way to foster even more accountability for their actions.

[Matt]

When do these rules go into effect?

As soon as classes take place and people get qualified. We already have a location in mind for them and we're fleshing out a schedule right now. I believe they'll happen quarterly.

[yandle]

Are snipers under the age of 18 going to be allowed to run over 600 or will they be limited lower?

[Cobol]

I'm fine by it. Not everyone is going to be using a SAW (BELT FED REPLICA), since they're prohibitively expensive. If someone breaks these rules, i.e. fires in an unsafe manner, then they can sit out of the game or change weapons. That's the way it's always been. If you f**k up and break a rule or violate the safe zones, you're done. Plain and simple. As an experienced player, you all are responsible to enforce these rules on the n00bs. Like anything else, we reserve the right not to play with you. If you abuse these rules, you can and will be banned from games. If anything, the latest incident after Grid 18 shows that we, as a community are willing to punish stupidity, and that fear alone should be enough to make people think twice about the rules. If you behave like a n00b, we will treat you like one and take away your toys.


I see alot of people complaining about coming around corners 20 ft away and getting hosed. 20 FEET. What happened to the SAFETY KILL you fscking n00bs. 20 = too close to shoot. You call a safety kill. At close ranges under no circumstances should you be aiming for the head. Heck, you should try to avoid it at longer ranges as well. Snipers are required to carry a side arm for this reason. EVERYONE else should also carry a sidearm for this reason. SAW gunners are no different.

Yes, the SAW is a suppression weapon. Alex fears the Full Auto Gun Squad. We discussed this as well. Imposing a limit (1:4 or 1:5 ratio on a team) as we do for sniper/spotter teams remedies this issue. A SAW is also cost prohibitive. To make a BELT FED weapon requires time and investment, excepting the case of the RPK, for which there is no belt feed, but there is also no current mod available for, you have to buy pieces and construct your own. We will be regulating the use of these items, we're not just going to let some n00b make a cheap a$$ replica, crank up the FPS and call it a SAW.

Troy brings up another good point that we dicussed. Reliability. 450 FPS is the max, but as stated, most will probably be in the 420-430 range since the gearboxes just aren't strong enough to maintain a sustained ROF and not fly to pieces in 2 games. Most SAW's will probably last 3 months before needing a part replacement. Maintaining a SAW at this level is a serious comittment that will disuede some people from sinking in the money on a continual basis.

450 FPS sounds like a lot, in reality, it's not. You're getting the extra power up close, but the added range is less than you would think (If I recall right, maybe 10 feet). As was stated earlier, the 450 allows you to use heavier BB's at 400 FPS. This allows for increased accuracy and brush penetration. This is a point I disagree on. I think that SAW gunners should be restricted to .2g BB's. This is a suppression weapon, not a high power AEG that's going to be making accurate burst shots. The .2g BBs will enforce a wider cone of fire and decreased accuracy that will help keep the SAW gunners from trying to use them like more accurate AEG's. With .2's you don't lose the added brush penetration since you've still got the same energy behind the BB, but you do limit the accuracy a little.

As far as courses go, I'm down with whatever. Basic safety and shoot/don't shoot courses are a good idea. As is elementary tactics and fire control. But the import fact that I want drilled into your heads is that if you misuse the weapon, no matter how many hundreds of dollars you sank in to it to upgrade it, you will not be allowed to use it. We can and will force you to put it in your vehicle and leave it there for at least the duration of the game, possibly longer depending on how much of a dumbass you were. If we're going to be giving you a license to use a higher power weapon, we're going to reserve the right to revoke that license on testimony of witnesses and after debate behind closed doors. This goes for all AP sponsored games, and any games in which the administrators request to use the AP rules and administrators.

Personally, I would like to see snipers with these levels of FPS sign a separate waiver that makes them legally liable for every shot they fire. This means that they would have to be 18 years or older. Again, we're not talking about a toy at this level, it's a weapon, and must be used safely to avoid causing serious injury. If you shoot someone's tooth out, I want you paying dental bills. Nothing learns you faster than loss of money or pain.

That is all for now.

[msawiel]

sorry don't know what happend...dbl post

[Nocte]

ya know what, i know you all want to put your two cents in, but the only people responding to this thread should be team leaders, and APL administratots.... THAT IS IT!

So because I'm not on a team, haven't been around here playing for X amount of time, my opinion doesn't matter? Bullshit. I care about my own safety, thus I should be able to voice my own concerns whether I'm on a team, or not, a team leader or some new grunt recruit. I think that suggesting that we leave our safety in the hands of others with absolutely zero input is completely out of line.

with that said i have nothing valuable to add to the thread because i am not knowledgeable enuff in our community or our environment

Hypocrite. You completely contradicted your entire point by posting here yourself. I don't hold any hard feelings towards ya KA-BAR, but I won't be told to be silent about things involving my well-being, and (no offense intended) especially from you, who is newer to the community than most of those you were directing your post at.



That said, 650's a bit of a jump, and I'd assume the minimum engagement range would be extended just as radically as the FPS extension. I'ms ure this has been discussed, but nothing's been posted, so I'm compelled to bring it up. On the positive side, I'm excited to see snipers being differenciated further from a rifleman role, since past restrictions limited them in this capacity. This, combined with a required bolt action course (intructed by Gunny, at that), is very reassuring that every M700 at RedWolf won't suddenly sell out and show up at one of our games.

As for the SAW range increase, I am a bit torn. On one hand, I see the argument of "what if I'm 20 feet from a SAW and blah blah blah" as unrealistic. SAWs are loud. You can find a SAW gunner without having to see them, from triple the range (or more) than the AEG has in the first place. If you're 20 feet from him, haven't noticed him, or shot him yet, you're retarded. I don't see an issue with safety over a 50 FPS increase.
On the other hand, I do see Kendo's point. Is it really necessary to fill the role of a SAW-gunner to have an even further advantage over riflemen? I'm glad to see the same restrictions for a SAW as a sniper (a sidearm and a required course) but, I think this should be the case whether there is a FPS upgrade or not.

I'd like to hear a reason why another 50 FPS is needed for a SAW to fufill the role.

[Cobol]

That said, 650's a bit of a jump, and I'd assume the minimum engagement range would be extended just as radically as the FPS extension. I'ms ure this has been discussed, but nothing's been posted, so I'm compelled to bring it up. On the positive side, I'm excited to see snipers being differenciated further from a rifleman role, since past restrictions limited them in this capacity.

That's actually not true. The extra FPS doesn't actually add as much range as you would think. It's an odd quirk of physics about drag that I'm not going to get into here, but I'm sure Seagreen could quote you more exact data as to the actual range increase. The thing it does do is allow you to be much more accurate, and that's the important part with this role. On the down side, this increases your safe engagement range, so a good sidearm and spotter companion is going to be even more critical to protect yourself from those who are inside this range.

[Seagreen]

The higher velocity for bolts is not for extra range. It is for more accurate (read safer) shooting.